childcare

hotfrangipani replied:

That's disgusting....

It just makes me sick how people can neglect kids like that....no food...dont change the nappy....what pigs....I would complain and give them an absolute earfull!

JanesHandmadeGifts replied:

That has happened to my son when he was 3 months old i put him in daycare for 5 hours while i spent time doing grocery shopping and have a rest (i had 4 older children too) and when i came back i noticed that his nappy had not been touched (not changed his nappy) and was still in the baby capsule that i brought him in that morning.   I went to a friends house and when i picked him up out of his capsule, there was a pool of water in his capsule and he was soaked right through and we had to wring out the lambswool liner full of wee and had to change all his clothes and nappy.    I rang up the childcare centre and they told me that they did change his nappy but i said but no nappies were taken out of his bag and then they tried to deny it.

Well the worst part was yet to come,  about 3 to 4 days later, he became very sick and was taken to emergency dept at the hospital with pnuemonia and was hardly breathing.   I was just so angry with the childcare centre that i never took him back there again. 

Then about 15 months later he went to another childcare centre and on this day, he told me he told me sore on the lips.    About a couple of days later after he wouldnt eat or drink much i took him to the doctor and she did a swab on his lips and he had developed herpes simplex (omg i was in shock).  The childcare centre told me the next day when i contacted them and said there was a little girl there who had coldsores on her mouth and was kissing my son on the lips but they didnt stop this child from coming to the centre.  So now my son now aged 12 occasionally breaks out in coldsores really bad if he is understress.

I decided to keep my youngest daughter home and not send her to daycare when she was under preschool age so she wouldnt have any complications either.  

lorton replied:

That is really awful, it is hard enough to leave your baby n the care of someone else, but to have them treated like that is terrible.

I would not only complain to the centre but also to higher management. 

They can't be let get away with treatment like that.  If you did it in your own home you would have child welfare breathing down your neck.

Zammy replied:

Oh no :(
I'm so sad to read about these experiences ladies.
I have to say that I've never heard a good thing said about an ABC childcare centre. Having studied some childcare, I was extremely wary of childcare centres, and put my daughter into Family Daycare instead. I've had two carers now, one absolutely brilliant (only left her because I moved out of the area) and one not so brilliant.
The centre that my daughter goes to now is wonderful, but I know she's lucky. Her carer is actually the daughter of a good friend of mine who also works at the centre.
The only advice I can give is to really shop around when it comes to this type of thing. Try to find an independant centre if you can, and stop in there, several times at different times of day to observe the staff (whether you child is enrolled or not). If this is not fine with the director, then I'd be wary of that centre immediately.

mangoscrapping replied:

Hi Ladies

thankfully travis is ok this morning, funily enough he picked up pretty much as soon as I put him in the car, my husband is going to go down there and give them what for, I am so angry about I will probably just get upset, he will be more in control than me, tell you what though they are in for it, he is German and if there is one thing I have learnt over 15 years of marraige it's don't make him angry.

They will regret the day that they negleted my child.

I am going to spred the word around the area, I know that some childcare centre's are really good but this one has just opened and is already doing things like this.

I am sorry to hear that so many people have problems with ABC the worst part is they are wiping out the small centre's.

I was telling my friend about what happened and she has now offered to take Travis on the days I have to work, so that will be heaps better, at least I know she loves him and will treat him like her own.

have a good party weekend

Cathie

SaucyKath replied:

Got to say a BIG FAT DITTO!  about the ABC centres with Tadpoles / Hutchinson Centres running a close 2nd in my books!    

My boys have all attended the same Community Child Care centre in Caboolture - which I found extremely good (and being a mum you hear so many bad stores - so if I even have the slightest inkling that somethings wrong somewhere I wont ever take the risk).  I also love the fact that the centre that my youngest goes to (he's 2) still has quite a few staff members there that my oldest boy had caring for him (10 years ago)!

Cathie, very happy to hear that Travis is feeling better.   I'd not only be complaining to the centre in person, but following it through with a letter AND sending the governing departments a copy.   Our children are too precious - and just think the next baby may not be as lucky or as quick to recover!

Definitely shop around - and remember to ALWAYS go with your instincts.

ExMember148 replied:

Oh Cathie you poor thing.  I hope all is well now.   It is so hard, to know what goes on behind closed doors.  And I would always recommend 'popping in' to check on the situation off guard.

When my eldest was little I always used community child care centres, they were so much more friendly and less clinical.  Just recently, when miss 6 was smaller, I had her at Mother Duck Strathpine.  I don't know about others, but I just loved Mother Duck!!

As for complaining, I would be going to the top, straight to the top!!! Good on your husband for stepping in!!

hotfrangipani replied:

I remember an incident involving my little sister, she was about 3-4 years old at the time....she was babysat by some lady.

When we picked her up she smelt of sour milk.  To my mothers horror...she found grains of sugar on my sisters scalp.... tiny crumbs of what looked like corn flakes too.

She finally admitted tipping a bowl of cereal on top of her head....amongst other things.

These days it is so hard to trust anyone with your precious creations.  The kids are so oblivious to the dangers in this world too...there are some sick people around. 

OK...I feel sorry for all of you that have had troubles with childcare centres.  The quality of care and compassion that should be in these centres seems to have dissapeared with the only agenda on their mind is more $$$ rather then the service.

OK I have had my winge now!

Lilygirl_wytch replied:

 As a mother of 5 boys, I have had lots of experiences when it comes to different childcare centres.

Let me get one thing straight... I Loathe ABC CHILDCARE CENTRES!!!! with a passion. I guess you could say I've had the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with them.  The first time was when my oldest was 4, he's now turning 16, this place was ok however I didn't like their 'attention to detail' and quality of care for children with special needs.

The lastest experience is when the Defence allowed ABC to take over our childcare centres. Let me clarify something.  The whole purpose of Defence childcare centres is to cater for defence children who get moved around alot and to provide quality childcare without having to book into other childcare centres and 'clog' up the waiting lists.  When ABC put in a tender, our centre in Brisbane over 83 families alone protested that we did not want them.  This protest went Australia wide, and we were still ignored.  The golden handshake deal was to have this national hotline number to assist families who are being posted to an area, sometimes 6 months in advance notice, and be able to get a placement at the other end.  This is just one of the promises they broke.

The only reason most of the families stayed on as long as they did, was because of the staff who also stayed.  But as they left so did we.  The last straw for me is when my 5 year old, who was 31/2 at the time came home with wet pants, dehydrated and had a headache.  I saw a rapid decline in his art works, participation and a massive increase in not wanting to go to school.  When I complained I was told I had no other alternative as I was a defence spouse.  I quickly moved my son to another centre close by, and was shocked to not only see, most of the defence families with their kids there, but also a large number of the staff that had left ABC.

Needless to say my boy was very happy, settled well and now my youngest goes there too.

I think it stinks how we need childcare for various reasons, but why does ABC have the largest percentage of childcare centres?  Shouldn't we as parents have a say of what sort of care and education we get for our kids?

After all WE'RE PAYING FOR IT !!!!!!

Lily

JanesHandmadeGifts replied:

ABC Childcare centres have bought out Hutchinsons Childcare centres here in Toowoomba and i have heard many complaints from parents and pulling their children out of the centres. 

candlelover replied:

I only used a child care centre for a short time as I work night shift and was able to work Thurs-Sun nights before my son started school. I used a child care centre on a Friday so I could get some sleep. It was an independant priately owned centre and the management and staff there were fantastic.

His name does escape me but the owner of ABC child care centres is now one of the richest men in Australia. I have often wondered if this is because of good business management or badly run centres ripping off parents who have no other choice but to use his centres. My brother and his family live in a country town and ABC have taken over the child care market there so he has no other choice but to use their centre. I have not heard a good word about ABC centres either so maybe he's become rich as the result of the poor families who get sub-standard care for their children from his centres..............

LoveMyLinen replied:

Hi

 It seems everyone has or knows someone with poor childcare prolems.  I have never experienced an ABC centre but friends have.  I experienced very poor childcare for my middle child in a private centre.  My middle child has food allergies and we discovered he was being fed foods he is allergic too.  He was pointing it out to the staff, I won't go into detail as it is way too long.  I removed my son from the centre and on the advice of a friend who is a childcare teacher put a complaint into DOCS.  I know the complaint was followed up, the centre had an investigation done on their menu planning and food handling  & their food sheets for the past 12 months were reviewed.  The teacher concerned lost her job and I believe the complaint and investigation results affected the centres accreditation.  I think we were lucky as my son was old enough to speak up and knew what he could and could not eat, but what would have happened if it was a baby or toddler.

I advise anyone with childcare problems don't just report them  to the centre but put them in writing to DOCS or other relevant departments, because you and your child might be lucky to get out with out any permanent damage but the next child might not. 

Tracey

mangoscrapping replied:

WOW I think I opened a can of worms,

I took Travis to the doctor's this morning, for his injections and told the doctor about my ordeal ar the centre on Friday, much to my surprise she excused herself and started phoning someone, she rang child services and reported that centre as offering sub standard care watch out ABC welfare has your number, she then rang her partner and told him to go and get there baby girl from the centre, I had no idea that her little girl was in the centre too, only thing is she is full time, thankfully her husband is on leave for 6 weeks which will give her time to find another place.

I rang ABC head office and spoke to a person that sounded so young that she was still in nappies herself, the centre says they changed her nappy and they have written proof that they did, they can't explain not having taken nappies from his bag, funny I don't know if there were any other boys there on friday so there nappies would have been pink not blue and not too mention he was the biggest baby there so he wouldn't fit into anyone else's .

ABC says that they will look into the circumstances and get back too me.

the only good thing about it, is that I don't have to pay the fee's for either of the days I used.

funny thought they didn't ask me not to tell anyone about my experience with them.

I am glad that I was able to hold my temper in the centre cause I must admit what I said on the phone this morning was not really for little ears.

I will never ever ever put my baby in a daycare centre again.

Cathie

angelfouad replied:

Hi everyone,

My sister runs her own childcare centre but before she did she worked at ABC. LET ME WARN YOU...DONT TRUST ABC.

Out of the 5 centres my sis worked for ABC was the worst. Parents get fooled by the new centres and new facilities and how well it looks. But the workers have no choice but to neglect the children. Why because they are all under staffed or the take on too many kids. There is an ABC centre on sydneys northern beaches that accomadates 180 kids!!!

It's crazy!! how can a centre manage so many kids and give each child personal education?

with all kids under 2, it's law that between 2 babies is one child care worker. My sister told me that in a room of 10 newborns there were only 3 girls looking after them!

The rich guy that owns ABC eats the money of all parents.

I would not reccomend ABC to anyone

Snazza replied:

Oh My Gawd!!! I have had tears running down my cheeks reading through some of your posts. What monsters!! I have a 7mth old son and we have an ABC centre within walking distance from here, but i will NOT be going anywhere near there now. I have battled for ages about when and at what age should i try my son at a childcare place as i wanted to at least go back to work part time but i was worried that no one would look after him like i do, he isnt quite adjusted onto solids etc yet and i just feel he is too young, so i was thinking when he was 12 - 18 mths it might be good for him to have interaction with little people but gosh its going to be hard finding somewhere i can trust as i assume most of these places are on their best behaviour when you are there.

CKCath replied:

I cannot tell you what the child/carer ratio is in other states, but here in Victoria it is one carer to five children under three years of age and one carer to fifteen children over the age of three.

I was under the impression that the lowest child/carer ratio was in fact one to three under threes. This is in WA. If you have a centre that has three staff caring for 10 children that is pretty good as far as I know.

I work in childcare. I spent five years working as a Home based Family day care provider where I could have four children under school age and up to seven children in total. This included my own children.  I now work in a centre where I have other staff in the room to support me and work one to five most of the time, unless I am in the kinder room where I care for 15 children. There is always at least one person "floating" through the centre, plus the centre director.

All child care centres come under the same state rules. You will find staff/child ratios are the same be it ABC, other Private Childcare companies or community based childcare. DHS (or state equivelent) set these rules and all centres are required to adhere to them. Sometimes the carers do need to leave the room with fewer staff members than is regulation but hey sometimes we also need to use the toilet at times that do not fit with our tea/lunch breaks!!

Some centres will provide nappies for the children, so you may not have had nappies taken from the bag. The centre I work at supplies nappies.

Food allergies is a very hard one, yes you are very lucky that your child was able to say he was not allowed to eat certain foods. I have had experiences in my centre where parents have asked us to feed their child a particular food and then asked at the end of the day if they reacted to it as they have not tried that food before. If your child has a food allergy make sure that all staff who deal with your child know about it, and the chef at the centre, remind staff every so often, check the menu for the days your child is there and if there is something in the food that your child will react to remind the staff. Remember also that sometimes staff visit from other rooms, or are only in the room for a short period of time, these people do not alway know everything about every child they see. Most rooms will have a staff/parent communication book, if there is something on that days menu your child cannot eat, make a note of it in the diary just to help the staff out.

You should take your time when looking for somewhere to leave your children in care. I see so many parents walk in the front door, enrole their child and look no further into centre policies etc, then complain when something does not go as they assumed it would. I would suggest that you visit the centre you are thinking about with your child a few times before you make your decision. Visit at the times/days you would be using the care, then you can see how your child interacts with the staff and the other children in the room. Visit more than once, take your time and talk to the staff, find out what their experience and attitudes are. Once your child starts, spend some time with them there, don't just drop off and leave. Call the centre to ask how your child is going of you are new to care, pop in sometimes if you have a few spare minutes in your day... but the MOST important thing you need to do is to get to know your childs primary carer. If you know them they will remember things about your child, if you don't have time to spend a few miutes at each end of the day to talk to the person who are leaving your child with, then you cannot know what they are like. If you are not comfortable with the person who will spend the most time with your child, then your child will not get the type of care you expect. You need to think about what you are asking of these people when you put your child in care and what you are asking of your child as well.

Remember it will take your child just as long to settle into the routine at a new centre as it would take you to settle into a new job.

It is amazing how many people will spend more time looking for a new car than child care facilitly.

I am not defending what happened to your child at this centre, it does not sound as though they have done a very good job. Sometimes things happen, it's not good, it's not an excuse but it is life!  I would suggest that you report it to the centre director, and further if you feel that you have not been dealt with properly.

Your job has good days and bad days, your child will also have good days and bad days in care as it is their "job" as well. Remember if you work for eight hours each day that your child's day is longer than that. Your child's carer also has good days and bad days, please take the time to know them and this will make your childcare experiences better.

My own children are now at school but I have been through the childcare experience from more than one angle, as a parent, as a Home based Carer,  as a student studying childcare and now as a carer provider in a long day care centre. My experiences have been very different in each of these roles.

rayray replied:

Reading all this is just making me sick!!! ABC centres if it's like that should never be up and going in the first place!!! It's a Child Care Centre for gods sake, we, as parents/carrers put our child to the "safe hands" of the staff in that centre!!!! It should be safe, friendly and our children well looked after!! Not neglect our kids!!! What is the world coming to??????

mangoscrapping replied:

Hi

I am not saying that all centre's are bad, but I do know that this centre does not provide nappies or food, there is no excuse for neglect, if I did to my child what they did I would have ahd him taken away from me.

Besides they assure me that they did change his nappy but can't say where they got the nappies from, funny how he was still in the same nappy I sent him in that morning. which I changed at 7.30 and then changed again myself at 2.30 before I put him down for a sleep and tried to rehydrate him. We are lucky that I picked him up when I did since another hour of no fluids and constant crying would have made him a very sick little boy.

I am not a mother who picks up their child every time they cry, but I don't let him get so upset that he is gasping for air, I don't strap him into a rocker or highchair for hours on end and I certainly don't starve him, and I don't send food to daycare that need to be prepared or fed to him he can feed himself.

You might work in a centre that is perfectly good, but unfortunately for my child and many others going from the amount of posts the standard of childcare is pretty bad.

I too have done childcare from home and still look after another baby the same age as mine, and yes it can be a bit of a juggle but I don't do what these supposedly qualified people did.

The mechanics can't say sorry we didn't put your brakes back on because we were understaffed and a doctor can't tell you he won't stitch that up cause he doesn't have time so why should a childcare worker get to say I won't feed or change that baby because there isn't enough staff,

by the way there were only 6 babies in the room and there was another lady there ( a trainee) and a director floating around.

As for picking a centre, I went to this centre four times before I put him in, and everything seemed to be in order. There is still no excuse for neglect, no matter how little the carer's get paid or how many children there are, no wonder my child was crying constantly he was starving wet and tired from all the crying.

CKCath replied:

Please understand I am not condoning what happened to your children. The staff members who were on duty that day should be dealt with, there is no excuse for that sort of neglet in any centre.

My sugesstions (were not implying that you did not check out the centre properly by the way) were merely suggestions from a child care staff members point of view on things you can do to reduce the chances of your child/children ending up in a care situation you are not happy with.

In my centre alone I deal with over 100 children a week. I cover breaks which means that I move from room to room, spending ten minutes for tea breaks and half an hour for lunch breaks for each staff member. In my six hour shift I cover at least ten five minute breaks, and five lunches. I see things that I don't like happening, and I report them to my supervisors.

Each time I change a nappy in my centre there are three forms of paperwork I am required to complete, this is due to experiences like the ones you are describing. I am required to check sleeping children every five minutes, this also needs to be written down. Every item of food the children eat is required to be documented - the amount, the type everything. I am required at fruit time to record that little Johnny ate two pieces of apple, three grapes, only tasted the rockmelon and refused the other three fruits offered. Multiply this task by ten to fifteen children!

These checks are in place in the hope of avioding the types of situations you have all described, they have been introduced as somewhere a child suffered and now the staff are doing paper work to prove that they are doing their job correctly. This does not mean the job is being done any better however, just that we need to document it more.

The only way conditions are going to be changed for children in centres is if parents complain and work towards lowering the ratio of children to staff in all areas. As a parent you would never be expected to look after 5 children under the age on one on your own. In childcare that is what we are required to do.

In order for the staff ratio to be increased however fees will need to rise, this will in turn make childcare less affordable. So you have an idea, I am a room assistant I earn $15.64 per hour. Room leaders (who have a Dimploma of Childcare) earn more, but I am not sure how much. The centre I work at charges $56.00 per day per child. They provide nappies and five meals per day per child for this cost. The centre bases their fees on being open from 6.30 am till 6.30 pm. At this rate each child is charged at $4.60 per hour for care. In the under fives rooms I have five children in my care.... so the centre earns $23.00 per hour for the work I do. Out of this they must pay for my wage, food, nappies the chef and of course the director.

I consider my rate of pay to be reasonable for me personally. I consider the rate of care to be reasonable for the parents. More workers will mean higher levels of care, but also higher fees.

All I was trying to say is, take the time when you look for child care.. lots of it. Make sure you are comfortabel with the people you are leaving your children with. If you arrive at the room and there is a staff member on duty you don't know, talk to them, make sure you are happy to leave your child in their care. If you have no chioce then spend a few minutes watching, then phone during the day. Listen to what is going on in the background while on the phone, if you hear happy nioses chances are everything is fine. If you don't- maybe consider dropping in and having a little look for your self.

Please remember that MOST people are working in childcare because we love children. We are doing the best we can for your wonderful little people. Those who are not really are in the minority. We work within our centre guidelines and do the very best we can. If you have problems with us, please let us know, if that doesn't help let the directors know. If you are still not happy take it further. They are your children and should get the best care you can find for them.

mangoscrapping replied:

Hi

I realise that you are not condoning what the centre did. I am still very angry about the whole situation and you are right we as parents need to complain, and this I have done believe me, my husband has also been on the phone about it as he thinks I would have been to nice about it.

I understand that not all centre's are not like this one but unfortunately for them this centre and the many others like it are suffering because of it.

I know childcare workers don't get paid very much and that is a sad reality.

I personally would rather pay more and know that my child is being loved not neglected.

he is only now starting to settle down again after his ordeal. I cant shut his bedroom door anymore and either myself or my husband has to be within eyesight of him or he panics.

see this is why I am so mad about the whole experience.

Cathie

CKCath replied:

I do understand why you are so upset, I would be too.

Is there a good Family Day Care Scheme in your area, this may be a better alternative for your son. He may now feel more comfortable in a small group setting than any centre, no matter how good. some of the Family Day Care Schemes also offer an option for a carer to come to your home, I am not sure what the qualifying rules are for this, but it would be worth checking out. The other advantage of FDC is that the age of the children in care varies, so the carer is less likely to have multiple babies to try and care for.

I have become very fussy about who my children are left with, this extends to family as well. I have FDC people who I would happily have care for my children, but others I have worked with I would not leave my dog with, this also applies to members of my extended family.

mangoscrapping replied:

Me too, there are several people I know that have offered but there is no way I would leave him with them.

I have a friend with a baby the same age and she has offered to look after him, I know her really well and she has basically the same rules as we do. I have got him on the waiting list for family daycare but worst case senario I will just not do daytime parties.

Cathie

TrendyClothes4Kids replied:

Gosh, what an ordeal for you! 

I too put my son into a daycare centre for two 6hr days a week when he was 13mths old.  He lasted maybe 3 weeks!  His care was good... they had documented everything, lots of photos, I dropped in to check etc... but he just didn't settle.  He really struggled with being there, and the teachers were lovely, and told me that he was struggling.  I really appreciated their honestly... He would have moments (up to 30mins or so) of being happy, but would then cry again for abit etc.  After 3wks, I told them I couldn't do it to him anymore.  It broke my heart thinking that he still hadn't settled.  I knew I needed to give him the time to settle for a few weeks, as the care was very good (and he consistently had the one carer who's lunch break was at his home time - lucky for me!) but it wasn't to be.  We decided that he was a one-on-one type kid (which I think some just are) and we got a Nanny.  The best thing we ever did.  He bonded with her immediately, she adored him, and we had her for 18mths before she moved overseas.  Now that he's 5, and we really know his personality, we can see that he wouldn't have settled.  He is a creature of habit, and closeness with those he loves.  He still needs to have familiar things around etc  for confidence.   My daughter, completely different, she would thrive in a great daycare!

I totally understand where CK Cath is coming from... there are great daycare's out there.  I also see that your experience was pretty close to as bad as it gets.  Have you thought about getting a part-time nanny and having him at home?  Especially now that he is so wary (understandably so)  It would mean he is in his own space, and would likely settle so much better.  Just a thought.

All the best,
Katrina.

mangoscrapping replied:

Hi Katrina

I don't really need a nanny, I was only doing one day a week so I can expand my tupperware business, I have actually found a friend that will look after him for me, and I will pay her instead, he loves her and has  known her since he was 6 weeks old so is very comfortable with her.

If all else fails I will just keep my business at the same level for the next couple of years until he is big enough to tell me when something is bothering him.

Cathie

TrendyClothes4Kids replied:

Great plan!  All the best with it
Kx